HR 4437
This is a spot to post your opinion. Tell us what you believe and why. BUT (and I really mean it), you must back your opinion with FACT. If you are writing here, that means you have access to the Internet. Use it. Find out the FACTS to support your opinion. Don’t just say, “I heard.” If you quote a source, tell me what the source is.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
I felt this comment of Natalia’s belonged under this post:
today was crazy!!! people were running around , jumping fences… the only thing I did was jump on a tree bench… Im a coward I Know… But I was screaming with my friends It was fun!But it was really crazy!!!!
Natalia
I think Natalia raises 2 important points:
1. Everyone running around out of control is a scary and potentially dangerous situation. It’s not being a coward to be afraid; it’s being smart!
2. How much of the walkout was based on deeply felt, knowledgeable political beliefs, and how much of it was just, “crazy, fun”? I have complete respect for those who are acting out of their convictions, rooted in FACTS, and NO respect for those who just want to act crazy. As for those of you who were acting because of your opinions. . . learn the facts, and then I will respect your right to voice an opinion.
BTW, I’m not sure I have all the facts yet, so I certainly will not voice my opinion.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Here’s a reliable source, KNX radio. But, is it completely accurate? Note the time listed; the news doesn’t include anything that happened at lunchtime or later.
Posted: Monday, 27 March 2006 9:07AM
Students Leave Classes Again to Join Immigration Protests
Steve Marshall Reporting
KNX 1070 NEWSRADIO
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (KNX) — For the second day, it was the political equivalent of “snow day” at several Southern California high schools as students walked out of classes to join protests against immigration crackdowns.
Students from at least eight schools from the San Fernando Valley to Pacific Palisades, totaling about 800 people, took part in demonstrations on California’s Cesar Chavez Day. The late Chavez was a fierce advocate for California’s agriculture laborers as leader of the United Farm Workers Union.
In a heavily immigrant community, students from Huntington Park High School scaled chain link fences to join marchers after officials locked gates after the start of classes.
While police were on hand, no arrests were made as students took to the streets.
Similar walkouts happened at throughout the state of California last Friday and were followed by a rally on Saturday at Los Angeles City Hall that drew an estimated 500,000 people - one of the largest demonstrations ever held in the city.
Demonstrators are protesting the House bill that would make it a felony to enter the U.S. without documentation, impose new penalties on employers who hire them and calls for the erection of fences along one third of the U.S. Mexican border.
March 27th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Here is a link to another good article:
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/8233518/detail.html
It talks about Saturday’s rally, and gives a lot of background information about HR 4437
March 28th, 2006 at 9:37 am
i was at the rally on saturday. i was surprised it wasn’t out of controll.we almost walked for 4 hours but we got tired so we left.while we where leaving some people were barely going into the rally! we were packed like a pack of sardines,we could barely walk three steps a time.bye Mrs.Zana
March 28th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
AN OPINION ABOUT PROPOSITION HR 4437
This is a bad proposition, we do not want this law to pass!!! This proposition prevents all illegal immigrants to attend school, work, live in the US. pretty much violates all of your human rights. It is unfair because now cops will be able to ask you for identification/proof that u are not an immigrant, so if this proposition is passed be prepared to be annoyed by cops if u are a citizen or not.
This is completely injust, a person deserves to live life without being harrast all the time. The people whose papers are in progress to get their citizenship or resident will also go to the garbage. Also if u are driving and the passanger is an immigrant u go to jail, or if you have an illegal immigrant living in your house you will also go to jail. So in other words u can not be found with an illegal immigrant because it will be considered a felony, if this law is approved. Please help pass the word.
I know that every single one of you reading this have at least one illegal friend that has came from a foreign country to better themselves, How would u feel if these people were treated injustly because of were they are comming from. We can not all be born in the U.S., and we are definitely not born thinking about citizenship, we have to start from scratch and we deserve a chance. So if u have a friend who you wouldnt like to loose or know people who are illegal, or just think this is a messed up proposition then protest against it! This opinion came from many people on a bulliten.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
My other comment about HR 4437 is this and came also from other people with their own blogs. H.R 4437 is an unlawful racists law aimed at immigrants REGARDLESS of your status. Resident, Legal, or Not.H.R. 4437 could make YOU a criminal. H.R. 4437 will allow the government to prosecute almost any American who has regular contact with the undocumented.
H.R. 4437 turns 11 million immigrants into criminals. Unlawful status is currently a civil violation of immigration law. H.R. 4437 would classify undocumented immigrants as criminals and “aggravated felons,” subjecting them to imprisonment as well as deportation.
H.R. 4437 will disrupt the economy and destabilize U.S. workers.
H.R. 4437 seeks to drive out seven million undocumented immigrant workers, consequently disrupting the economy, with no corresponding increase in security or legality. H.R. 4437 will create an Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS), which could severely limit workers’ claims, including prohibiting class action lawsuits against the government, and will displace millions of documented workers – U.S. citizens and legal residents alike.
H.R. 4437 denies due process and citizenship to lawful permanent residents. H.R. 4437 limits judicial review of executive branch decisions, violates the constitutional guarantee of due process and separation of powers, and, most importantly, strips the courts of their role in protecting the individual against excessive governmental power.
H.R. 4437 divides families.
H.R. 4437 will separate more American families with its excessive deportation authorities.
H.R. 4437 is an attack, not an answer. This is not an antiterrorism bill, not a border security bill, not an enforcement bill, and not an immigration reform bill. This bill fails to address many of the most important elements of immigration reform. Rather, it targets all immigrants for punishment and does not contribute to our security or to immigration reform.
The proposed Anti-Immigrant bill HR 4437:
• Would consider all undocumented immigrants criminals in this country
• Any organization or individual that assists an undocumented immigrant will be subject to fines and imprisonment
• Police officers will be able to act as immigration agents
March 28th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
Karen: stay online. I’m writing you a big response.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
From a different perspective, a parish, here is what I found from a newspaper that Catholics have to say about HR 4437.
It has been a long time since this country heard a call to organized lawbreaking on this big a scale. Cardinal Roger Mahony of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, the nation’s largest, urged parishioners on Ash Wednesday to devote the 40 days of Lent to fasting, prayer and reflection on the need for humane reform of immigration laws. If current efforts in Congress make it a felony to shield or offer support to illegal immigrants, Cardinal Mahony said, he will instruct his priests — and faithful lay Catholics — to defy the law.
The cardinal’s focus of concern is H.R. 4437, a bill sponsored by James Sensenbrenner Jr. of Wisconsin and Peter King of New York. This grab bag legislation, which was recently passed by the House, would expand the definition of “alien smuggling” in a way that could theoretically include working in a soup kitchen, driving a friend to a bus stop or caring for a neighbor’s baby. Similar language appears in legislation being considered by the Senate this week.
The enormous influx of illegal immigrants and the lack of a coherent federal policy to handle it have prompted a jumble of responses by state and local governments, stirred the passions of the nativist fringe, and reinforced anxieties since 9/11. Cardinal Mahony’s defiance adds a moral dimension to what has largely been a debate about politics and economics. “As his disciples, we are called to attend to the last, littlest, lowest and least in society and in the church,” he said.
The cardinal is right to argue that the government has no place criminalizing the charitable impulses of private institutions like his, whose mission is to help people with no questions asked. The Los Angeles Archdiocese, like other religious organizations across the country, runs a vast network of social service programs offering food and emergency shelter, child care, aid to immigrants and refugees, counseling services, and computer and job training. Through Catholic Charities and local parishes, the church is frequently the help of last resort for illegal immigrants in need. It should not be made an arm of the immigration police as well.
Cardinal Mahony’s declaration of solidarity with illegal immigrants, for whom Lent is every day, is a startling call to civil disobedience, as courageous as it is timely. We hope it forestalls the day when works of mercy become a federal crime.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:55 pm
A Fact that i found out about this proposition:
H.R 4437
TiTLE:To ammend the Immigration and Nationality Act to strenghten enforcement of the immigration laws, to enhance border security, and for other purposes.
SPONSER=Rep-Sensenbrenner F. James, Jr.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Karen: I am pleased to see you posted a comment and proud of you for doing so. You raise many important points and have given other students some good information. Your passion for this issue is obvious and your community is lucky to have intelligent, involved members such as yourself.
I would still appreciate it if you could give us the details about the house bill. What exactly does it say? Also, please explain to everyone if the bill is now the law, or what needs to happen for it to become a law. This will students understand what steps they can take if they want to make a difference.
I also must respectfully disagree with you on a couple of points. You call the bill a “proposition”. This is a term used for a law in the STATE of California that voters directly vote on. 4437 is a FEDERAL bill being debated in the U.S. Senate. Not a big point, but it’s important to get your facts straight. You say that the law will, “pretty much violate all your human rights.” There is no “human right” to live in whatever country you want. No country in the world allows anyone who wants to to just come on in. If the U.S. decides it wants to do that, fine. Me , personally, I’d have no problem with it (as long as the people coming in weren’t criminals). But, you can’t claim unlimited immigration is a human right.
You also claim that, “The people whose papers are in progress to get their citizenship or resident will also go to the garbage.” Do you mean that people in the process of getting green cards would not be able to complete the process? I strongly doubt the bill states that, but if you have evidence, I’d be interested in seeing it.
Since I started responding to your 1st post, you have posted 2 more. Good for you. Some of the language is very difficult am I’m sure your classmates would appreciate having you explain in simple words what the bill exactly says.
Also, besides running around in the rain and acting crazy, WHAT CAN STUDENTS DO TO BE HEARD? My suggestion would be: write the world’s most amazing, powerful letter to both of your U.S. Senators and to Senators McCain and Kennedy. Let them hear your unique voice. Then, get everyone you know to do the same. But, and I repeat myself here, make sure they speak from KNOWLEDGE as well as PASSION.
I hope that 10 years from now you will come back to visit me and tell me that this was the beginning of your involvement in political action and that you have gone on to become a national student leader. I expect no less of you.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
Thank you Mrs.Zana I have been looking and now am looking for more information and finding ways to explain my points so that anyone can understand what I am trying to say. So, it might take me a while to find these things, and i also found out how many schools were protesting against it, 23. I also found out that our governer was also against it. I didn’t find out yet if H.R. 4437 is a new law? So, I am still looking for something and the other things you wanted me to take a look at.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:47 pm
Where did you find out about the 23 schools? I didn’t find anything about what happened today. Also, where did you find the Governor info?
Since you’re working so hard, I’ll fill you in on whether or not it’s a law. . . Stay tuned.
I’ll be back online in 1/2 an hour.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:50 pm
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/03/28/news/californian/18_03_293_27_06.txt In this blog i found people can write a letter to the editor and I am commenting it as well as your blog. I thought that some other students would want to do this too.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Mrs.Zana people have posted bulletins saying that HR 4437 has not been passed and dropped!!But, I am not sure because I am goin to watch the news at 9 tonight to see what happened.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Good article here about the student walkout in the Valley today:
http://www.dailynews.com/ci_3646749
The source is the Los Angeles Daily News.
The source you found from the newspaper in San Diego was also easy to read.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
Oh Mrs.Zana as I said before that the 23 schools were on a bulliten that people added their school and the results are these:
1.TAFT HIGH
2.CANOGA HIGH
3.CHATSWORTH HIGH
4.CLEVELAND HIGH
5.KENNEDY HIGH
6.BRIMINGHAM HIGH
7.SAN DIEGO HIGH
8.POINT LOMA HIGH
9.MISSION BAY HIGH
10.CHULA VISTA HIGH
11.CLAIRMONT HIGH
12.SAN YSIDRO HIGHz
13.PATRICK HENRY
14.LA JOLLA HIGH
15.CASTLE PARK HIGH
16.MADISON HIGH
17.HOOVER HIGH
18.MORSE HIGH
19.GARFIELD HIGH
20.GOMPERS HIGH
21.RESEDA HIGH
22.CHARTER SCHOOL
23.MULHOLLAND MIDDLE
Oh and on the CNN website i read about the governor being against it.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
O.K., let me explain it. I went over this in class today after lunch.
HR 4437 is a bill. It was passed by the U.S. House of Representatives in December. But, that doesn’t make it a law. Not yet. Bills become laws through a complicated procedure that I will try to explain simply.
First off, I’m talking about Federal law; laws that apply to all 50 states, not just California. The U.S. congress makes the laws. There are 2 houses in congress: The House of Representatives and the Senate. They BOTH need to agree on a bill before it becomes a law.
Right now, the House of Representatives passed the bill, but the Senate just started debating it. That’s why people are protesting now. They don’t want the Senate to pass the bill. If the Senate doesn’t like HR 4437, they can make up their own bill, and then both houses need to get together and come up with a compromise that they both agree on. Right now, from what I’ve heard, Senators Kennedy and McCain have their own idea about a different bill that the Hispanic community will probably like better.
So, once the Senate and the house have a bill they both agree on (and have voted on), it goes to the president. If he agrees with it, he signs the bill, and then (and only then) it becomes a LAW of the whole country.
What if the president doesn’t like the law? Then he vetoes it, which is a fancy word that means he says, “No way, I’m not letting this become a law.”
But, that’s not it. If the congress thinks they were right and the president wrong, they can vote again. But this time, it’s not majority (over 50%) rules. For the congress to override the president’s veto, they need to have over 2/3 of the congress vote that they are right and the president wrong. If they get 2/3 of the vote, then the bill becomes a law.
So, in short: HR 4437 is not a law yet. It’s just a bill. If you don’t want it to become a law, the next step is to contact your senators. Believe it or not, they listen. They count their letters each week and see what the voters in their state think about the issues. This influences how they vote; they want to make their voters happy so they can get re-elected.
Any questions? Was this clear?
March 28th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
The Fox News site explains the debate going on right now in the Senate. It’s a complicated story, but they explain it pretty clearly. I was surprised to read what Bush’s opinion is, according to Fox News.
Go here to find out your Senators’ names and to email them:
http://www.senate.gov/
I would be happy to correct any letters before you send them, so that you sound as brilliant as you are.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:25 pm
OOOOOOOOOOOOO I understand now so 2+2=4 just kidding (I say that when i finnally “get” something) so now i m going to think of what to write to the senetors. But now i understand the whole thing.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
Oh ok I went to the website yeah it gives very good background about senators. And I think I can persuade the students in class why I am against it, but I will need to gather more facts.
April 3rd, 2006 at 7:56 pm
I agree with al that you guys have too said. I mostly agree with Karen. When I heard that they were going to pass this bill I was mad, because I family that want to come here. My grandpa wants to come here from El Salvador because he wants to spend time with his daughters and sons, because he is getting old and sick but they won’t let him come. This law is really unfair and a lot of people think that the governor won’t sign it. In 1986 president, Ronald, give people a chance of getting paper. I quote my mom saying” Those were the good old days.” I use to laugh at that but now I take it seriously if today was like 1986 there wouldn’t be as many problems as there is now. I was reading over what mrs.zana gave me and in the year 1870 100, 000 Chinese were living in California. They took a lot of Americans jobs away. People need to realize that this is not only against Hispanics it is also against chinese,asian,etc.i think we could have handle the situation more mature.we shouldn’t have jumped fences and not go to class.that is all I have to say.
~lily~
April 3rd, 2006 at 8:07 pm
I’m glad to see you posted Lily. I’m sorry for your Grandfather not being able to come. I hope you will be able to visit him.
You say that, “This law is really unfair”. Remember, the law is a FEDERAL law, for all of the U.S. It’s not the governor that needs to sign it; it’s President Bush.
As far as the Chinese go, you’re right that immigration isn’t just about Hispanics. I was reading in the newspaper just this weekend about the large number of illegal Chinese immigrants today. But, in the 1870’s I’m not sure the Chinese were “taking” anyone’s jobs. I think people were just being racist. The Chinese men had built the railroad that crossed the U.S. It was REALLY dangerous work that no one wanted to do. Once the railroad was done, the country didn’t need the Chinese anymore, so they passed laws to keep them out.
Keep learning about this issue. It’s important for you, your family, and our country.